First, I must say right at the start that the Signing problems are NOT the fault of the FireGPG developers and I don't think they can do anything about it either. This will probably be my last post on this subject.  Here are the two files with fairly exhaustive signing tests:

http://www.securemecca.com/FireGPG.zip
http://www.securemecca.com/AOL_FireGPG_SignTest.zip

Paste these URLs DIRECTLY into your browser.  I don't have time to make a web page to point to data that will eventually be dated and removed.  We have too many stale links and outdated pages on the Internet as it is without adding some more. One surprising result is that EVERY test I had in sending signed messages from my hhhobbit7_GNAT_netscape.net email account to my hhhobbit_BAT_securemecca.net (POP mail) WORKS!  It doesn't just work in Thunderbird (where it always complains about the AOL tack-on). I saved the messages from Evolution which does NOT understand INLINE and just sees the message as text.  Every one of those messages also verified manually in a file. My version of Evolution only does OpenPGP/MIME; I can't speak for newer versions of Evolution.  So when I see any of the files with the *2tbd* I am actually saving them  from Evolution which makes no attempt to interpret anything.  I do strip off the headers, but so does gpg.  I did do some tests with and without the stripping and it makes no difference to the results (which it shouldn't).  It is the fact that the web interface itself is somehow changing what is handed to be signed and what is actually sent, and what is copied from the browser into the vim editor that I use to paste the email messages using X.

Signing has TONS of problems!  What I suspect is happening is that the WebMail program or FIrefox is giving FireGPG one thing which it faithfully hands off to gpg which signs it.  Additional CR+LFs don't pose a problem because GPG ignores them in making the check sum.  So what is happening is the WebMail (Firefox) is handing FireGPG one thing (which may include hidden characters), and what it sends is something else.  I am using Fedora Core 3 Linux with everything updated except for Evolution. I suspect it is some sort of hidden characters that you don't see.  The fact that it is always working from AOL to my POP mail account all the time seems to rule out Firefox itself, but that may not be correct.  All I know is that everything I have tested in signing from AOL / Netscape to my POP email account worked.

Okay, then why does signing not work when encryption works with no problems?  The reason why is that no matter what the Firefox browser / WebMail hands off to FireGPG, that is in turn encrypted and FireGPG will INCLUDE those funky characters if any in the encryption. What ever was originally there is COMPLETELY replaced by the encrypted test.  I don't know whether it is Firefox, the WebMail client, or what that is doing the swap of what is signed from what is sent, or even when it is happening, but it is taking place!  Given the random results of the verifying, it makes me suspect even more the WebMail itself over Firefox.  If it was Firefox, it would have more consistency.

Oh yes, the last test wasn't complete.  HotMail blocked all of my OpenPGP signed email from AOL / Netscape.  I am unsure whether it is the OpenPGP MIME marking, that AOL is now being blocked, or what. HotMail and MSN people need to realize that frequently email that is sent to their accounts is being blocked.  Sometimes when that happens, I can send the very same email message again with no problems..

For now my recommendation is to use FireGPG for INLINE asymmetric encryption only.  Further, I don't think the signing problems are due to anything the FireGPG developers have done.  In other words, I believe it is out of their control.  I may be wrong on that, but I have worked with it enough that is my final conclusion.  On the other hand, if they have released the code itself, I will take a look at it.  Without that anything else I would say is nothing more than a guess.

Finisez!

2

(4 replies, posted in Requests)

You don't need to add support for symmetric encryption to FireGPG. In reality, you ARE using symmetric encryption within any asymmetrically encrypted message.  Here is how it happens:

1. gpg generates a random hash key based on the preferences of the recipient(s).  It normally uses SHA1, since that is the lowest common denominator that will work with everybody.  There ARE some exceptions but most of you are using SHA1 as Digest Algorithm anyway.

2. gpg encrypts that key using the other person's public key (meaning only they  can get the key back).  If you have multiple recipients it makes little difference whether you used either the same key or a different one since each recipient gets their own encryption of the hash key.

3. gpg then symmetrically encrypts the message itself using the hash key.  It makes as many copies as there are users, since each user has their own symmetric cipher preference.

4. gpg then gloms all this together and gives it to the email program which in turn sends if off.

Now on the receiving end ...

1. gpg extracts both that person's asymmetrically encrypted key and that recipients copy of the encrypted message based on what key they are using for that email address.

2. gpg asks the user for their public / private key pass-phrase.

3. gpg uses the pass-phrase to decrypt the asymmetrically encrypted key that was randomly created (which is why the OpenPGP people CONSTANTLY caution you NOT to use the same random seed).

4. Using that key gpg asymmetrically decrypted, gpg then uses that key to decrypt the message itself.

In short, you don't need symmetric encryption within FireGPG.  If on the other hand somebody wants to use one of the symmetric ciphers to encrypt a file then they can do that via various means and send that as an attachment.  But symmetric encryption itself other than what is going on under the hood is NOT needed in FireGPG.  It also is *NOT* provide by ANY of the POP email programs, nor should it be.

One of the benefits of asymmetric encryption is that once I have encrypted something for somebody else, even *I* cannot decrypt it.  IMHO, symmetric encryption is *NOT* needed in FireGPG.  What is needed is to hash (pun intended) why signing isn't working.  INLINE encryption works great with ALL of my tests - NONE of the encryption tests have failed yet.

There is more to it than that.  I just concluded an exhaustive test and finally mixed the  AOL email program into the mix.  Believe it or not, AOL (Netscape) is the first WebMail I have ALWAYS had success in sending signed messages from AOL to Thunderbird. That is a FIRST!  Thunderbird doesn't like the trailers attached by AOL, but it always verifies signed mail fromAOL.  Here are the results of the tests:

http://www.securemecca.com/FireGPG.zip
http://www.securemecca.com/AOL_FireGPG_SignTest.zip

At first it looked like you were going to say that you sent from Evolution or Mac's Mail App.  They only use OpenPGP/MIME.  In general, FireGPG only handles INLINE signing. It can handle some OpenPGP/MIME encrypted messages, but whether FireGPG encrypts or signs, it is only using INLINE.

Wrapping shouldn't cause a problem for signing because if done right, all CR and LF characters are tossed out in both making the signature and in verifying it.  What I think is happening is that the WebMail itself is mucking things up on signing.  I have had EXCELLENT results in encrypting and decrypting as long as I stick to INLINE from a POP email client (it ALWAYS works).

An INLINE signed email message really looks like this internally:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA512

MESSAGE GOES HERE

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: http://firegpg.tuxfamily.org

iD8DBQFGa/crr3QZv1upb6wRCskaAJ0VX96Lnhb9fUHsFhV5JuuzykHPiACaA7D+
gFvixJ3fxvPdaeh7DXzmpwE=
=d8VJ
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Many people confuse the external appearance in a particually email client with what  is really there.  The best way to see some of this is to use POP mail and save the message to a file.  You can see everything if you edit any of my *2tbd*.txt files in the above two zips, since Evolution saves the message AS IS with none of the internal processing that Thunderbird does, since Evolution doesn't even know what INLINE signing or encrypting are and it makes NO attempt to do ANYTHING with INLINE signed or encrypted message.

PS  Yes, I really do use SHA-512.  I haven't had any problems yet with POP mail using it so these signing problems are a Web Mail only problem.  People are not diving deep enough into looking at the bottom level series of ASCII characters which are what are REALLY used at the SMTP file level.  Also, all email is sent with CR+LF.

What I suspect is happening is that the WebMail program is perhaps signing one set of data, and then sending another, but since ALL of my tests have been only 65 characters per line max, the 80 characters aren't even an issue.

4

(5 replies, posted in Misc)

eean wrote:

Do you mean your planning to verify OpenPGP/MIME or it should work currently? In my experience, it doesn't work.

First, I am NOT one of the authors of FireGPG. Were you asking about OpenPGP/MIME signing or just signing period?  Pull down the following file and look at some of my tests of the signing (all INLINE):

http://www.securemecca.com/FireGPG.zip

The results are pretty dismal.  I imagine my huge digest algorithm doesn't help (SHA-512). On the other hand INLINE encrypting / decryping works well and sometimes OpenPGP/MIME *decrypting* works.  But I was only able to do that ONCE.

WebMail puts sever constraints on what you can do, and INLINE is the only thing that they have a chance of doing anything with regularity.  It is just that the only bundled POP / IMAP MUA program with Ubuntu Linux is Evolution and unless it has become better, it only accomodates OpenPGP/MIME.  Thunderbird is NOT bundled with Ubuntu Linux. Apple's Mail App is the same way - it only handles OpenPGP/MIME.

What I was trying to get the authors to do was just say that FireGPG does INLINE so people don't get confused.  Initially that one successful decrypt for a OpenPGP/MIME encrypted message was what made me wonder what was happening.  Since then, I haven't been able to get OpenPGP/MIME decrypting to work (sending from myself to myself).

5

(11 replies, posted in Bugs & problems)

Wrapping should have no affect on verification.  Email of course MUST send with CR+LF.  But if you are on some version of 'Nix that gets translated to just a LF on receipt, or the LF -> CR+LF when sending.  If you are on Windows or OpenVMS that would continue to be CR+LF.  But verification is supposed to toss out both CR and LF characters in doing the signing and verifying.  If you want the WebMail that is the worst in how wrapping of things is done, that has to be Yahoo.  I have done extensive tests of the signing problem and they are available in the following file:

http://www.securemecca.com/FireGPG.zip

In short signing of WebMail messages with FireGPG is a big problem and generally speaking, making yourself GMail-centric is bound to blind you to what is going wrong.  The common format that all Mail User Agents have is plain ASCII text.  Actually, that is all that is sent anyway, and MIME markings will occur for anything that is not in that format.  Further, if youhave only LF in your ASCII text they must be converted to CR+LF before they are sent down the pipeline. I am talking about the actual transport.  It really helps to have POP mail since you can save the message to a file (don't do decryption in the MUA) and you can see all the MIME markings (but the text that was sent is always ASCII with CR+LF line endings with the MIME markings around the various pieces).  With WebMail what you see and what is may be worlds apart.  I tried saving the entire mess in Yahoo, and at the time that confused rather than enlightened me.

What you want though is not just a GMail-centric thing.  You want somebody on the other end to be able to verify a message whether they are using GMail, Yahoo WebMail, HotMail, AOL/Netscape, or a POP or IMAP mail account.  BTW, you can transform your GMail into a POP server if so desired.
If that requires plain text so be it - that is the best choice.

I went over and read what they said about Rich Text.  Please enlighten me because the only options I see for the WebMail services are the following:

Gmail:
Choice of default (assume plain text) and UTF-8

Hotmail:
I can't find any choices so the default is probably plain text.

Yahoo:
plain text or color & graphics.  I assume putting it in the color & graphics mode allows you to embed graphics and thus it becomes HTML format.  Since plain text is safer, that is what I use.

AOL / Netscape:
I can't see any choice, but since I didn't want to set it to not view or compose all email messages in separate windows, I abandoned it.  At the time I wanted to use the Tools -> FireGPG for every message check because I was uncertain whether the GMail buttons were causing the problems. I will check it again in a few days now that I have it set not to open Window for every message read or composed to see if that makes a difference.  I am intentionally using the web mail services in the way most people use them - with the defaults.  Those are the defaults, and I didn't want to contend with a right click screwing up the results.

I do need to say that I have done EXHAUSTIVE tests with the first three Webmail services and one POP mail account using Thunderbird (it is the only MUA I use that has support for INLINE).  The signing results have been dismally poor at best.  You can all download the results of the test by pointing the browser to:

http://www.securemecca.com/FireGPG.zip

This file is HIDDEN.  In other words almost everything at those web pages are hidden, so don't go the host itself and expect to maneuver around and find the file.  I haven't got around to building the web site yet.

I was ready to say that it must be a browser thing, but if it is, then why are ALL of my tests of encryption okay?  I must admit that I am signing with a SHA-512 digest, and the encryption may be using only SHA1, but lots of other people are having problems signing using SHA1.  Even worse, there are times that the verify fails or succeeds with FireGPG, and it does the converse (succeeds or fails, respectively) when I copy the mail message into a file and verify it from the command line (gpg --verify).  That does NOT instill confidence.  I am working from Fedora Linux, so the RTF (I assume you mean Rich Text Format - now if you mean UTF-8 that may mean something else) is almost meaningless.  You can't count on sending your messages to your POP or IMAP mail friends and have them do anything with them. There should be no difference between CR+LF versus just LF either since in making a check sum, gpg skips both of those characters.  Look at my tests in detail and maybe you can deduce something from it.  I am still searching for a pattern, and you have ALL of the short sign test email messages (I edited off the headers saved out by Thunderbird) to look at to make up your own mind.  I took the liberty of converting all LF -> CR+LF for the Windows users.  EMail sends with CR+LF anyway, not with LF.

I am NOT going to change my digest algorithm choices.  Further, All I know is that signing is OUT for FireGPG for now.  I can't even verify over 75% of my messages.  Even worse is what happens when I select the text and paste it into a file.  That becomes baffling when what verified in FireGPG doesn't verify from the command line, or what didn't verify in FireGPG does verify on the Command Line.

Asking for RTF is out of the question.  There is no native RTF (do you mean UTF-8?) support on Linux.  I don't want fancy messages verified.  Plain text is fine.  More to the point, since ALL of my encryption tests passed with flying colors, it makes the incosistent results of the sign tests even more baffiling.  I will do a few more tests with my AOL/Netscape webmail account (private UID addition to my keys) in the next few days and make it available at the same web site as AOL_FireGPG_SignTest.zip.

I really the FireGPG authors do need to make it plainly apparent that you should use INLINE signing at least, and preferably INLINE encryption (although web mail does handle OpenPGP/MIME encryption okay - the OpenPGP/MIME signing ends up with results that are all over the wall.  By that I mean one email service makes attached files, others embed things, etcetera. That makes OpenPGP/MIME impossible to use.  I figured it would.  Something needs to be said to users that they are primarily using INLINE (which I have no problem with even if I am using Evolution or Mac's mail app since I can save them out to a file and verify manually if I need to).

Be back in a few days ...

7

(5 replies, posted in Misc)

Now that I looked at it a little more carefully you not only can't do PGP/MIME sending, but you can't do PGP/MIME receiving of messages that are signed either.  It is just the nature of the beast (WebMail) that you can only sometimes handle decrypting of PGP/MIME encrypted in a POP emailer (which explains why sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't for me).  Signing is another matter.  I will address that in a follow-up else where.  Looking good though!

I think the main thing you need to say is that FireGPG does only INLINE, although I believe I was able to decrypt one OpenPGP/MIME encrypted message sent from a POP mail account.  I have not been able to repeat that feat though.  Maybe I confused the Thunderbird window with the Firefox window (they do look very similar) because at the time I was VERY tired. I have four WebMail accounts (for testing various things) and two pop mail accounts and have been testing this plug-in extensivle using only my own key.  I really do think you need to say you are using INLINE.  It took me a while to deduce that.

Other than that, I don't feel any burning need for documentation, and I must confess I can't understand you saying that Yahoo and HotMail aren't supported.  Just because there isn't a button, all people need to do is select the text and use the Tools -> FireGPG options of encrypt  or verify in going through those two WebMail programs.  AOL will NOT work with FireGPG.  They bring up that panel / window making it impossible to get to the menus. But if somebody is using Evolution for their POP mail account (it is the default MUA for IMAP & POP mail on Ubuntu Linux), they won't know why the two won't interoperate.  People need to be told that the POP person will need to use INLINE.  But I do feel that your major thrust needs to be for Windows.  One person told me that they needed WinPT.  I don't think that is necessary, but it is necessary to tell them how to add the ";%ProgramFiles\GNU\GnuPG" folder to the path to be sure gpg.exe can execute.

Good JOB!

9

(6 replies, posted in Bugs & problems)

That is the standard for meeting the requirements of the RFC.  But more to the point, I believe this would have been easier using OpenPGP/MIME over INLINE.  I made a post in the Misc asking for a reason on this topic.  The reason why is that once it is decrypted, I have to copy from the decrypted panel into a buffer in an editor, save that to a file, and verify manually.  That is on Unix systems.  On Windows systems I suppose that would be easier with WinPT.
It is still a two step operation that would have been easier with OpenPGP/MIME (I think).

10

(5 replies, posted in Misc)

I am wondering why you picked INLINE over OpenPGP/MIME.  In addition to the verification problems I am having between POP and WebMail (I sent you where to get the info on that), mail programs like Evolution and the plugin to Mac's Mail App only understand OpenPGP/MIME.  The GnuPG worked their little hearts out making sylpheed-claws (an Outlook look and feel alike) so that Windows users can send in this better format (OpenPGP/MIME).  It doesn't matter because I am having signing problems even using my own key and sending to myself from HotMail, GMail, Yahoo, and a POP mail account (using Thunderbird for POP).  The only reason I am asking is becuase I don't know whether it is too late to change, or if it was almost impossible to do OpenPGP/MIME (much preferred).